Oppo's thoughts on the Golf vs. GTI?

"gin-san - shitpost specialist" (gin-san-)
09/22/2016 at 15:56 • Filed to: NEW CAR

In short, I'm looking at a few cars, all pretty similar: 2016 Civic EX-T, 2016 Forte5 SX Turbo, 2016 Golf/GTI - basically, all small(ish) cars with turbo engines. I guess the Civic isn't small anymore.

The GTI is a stretch - a 5-door base model is several thousand dollars more than the current trims I'm looking at for the Civic and Forte5 SX. However, the Golf is in the right price range and the power is in line with what the other two cars offer. Keep in mind everything I'm looking at is in Canadian dollars, with our generous tax (13%) applied.

Back to my main issue: how is the regular Golf hatchback? The mid-level and fully-loaded trims are in the right price range, but I feel like I could never really enjoy it because I'm losing out on the GTI experience. Even if I could get a base GTI, I'd still feel like I'm losing out without the performance pack.

This being a car forum, I’d imagine I’ll get several opinions about how I should consider other cars, used cars, Miatas, brown diesel wagons, etc. but I’m really not interested. I did look at many other options but for one reason or another it comes down to these choices.

If you guys have experience with the new Civic EX-T or the Forte5 SX, I'd like to hear it. I'll be test driving these cars either today or tomorrow, but my biggest question is the difference between the Golf, GTI, and GTI performance pack - I don't want a base GTI if the performance pack makes that big of a difference, but I can live with the power deficit if the regular Golf is still an engaging drive.

DISCUSSION (34)

jkm7680 > gin-san - shitpost specialist
09/22/2016 at 15:59

The GTI is the superior car to all of those, if you can afford it, go for it.

smobgirl > gin-san - shitpost specialist
09/22/2016 at 15:59

Any reason why you wouldn't consider a car that's just a couple years old and still under warranty? It'll bring a lot more into your price range.

Ash78, voting early and often > gin-san - shitpost specialist
09/22/2016 at 16:00

My brother has a 2014 with the 5-cyl and loves it (he had a MkIV GTI with the old 1.8t before that). But don't the current Golfs start with the new 1.8t now? They keep shifting engines around on us, so I get lost.

CB > gin-san - shitpost specialist
09/22/2016 at 16:03

Whatever you’re going for, check to see if any discounts apply. For example, I know that Kia would give you $500 off if you’re a recent graduate.

Have you considered waiting for the Cruze hatchback? I’m assuming you’re in Ontario, and I noticed a few dealers have them on lots, so that could be a good thing to go with?

Garrett Davis > smobgirl
09/22/2016 at 16:03

This is exactly what I was going to say. Get a lightly used CPO model with low miles and a solid warranty and save some money.

FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem > gin-san - shitpost specialist
09/22/2016 at 16:05

The Golf has the best interior out of all three and IMO is the best looking. Afaik the 1.8 TSI is offered in North America so that would be just enough for daily driving. Just my $0.02

FromCanadaWithLove > gin-san - shitpost specialist
09/22/2016 at 16:05

I’ve driven both back-to-back on an autocross circuit. It’s amazing how different the GTI feels. The steering ratio was the biggest thing I noticed - spirited driving was a lot easier in the GTI. There was also quite a bit more roll on the 1.8T Golf. If you plan on doing autocross or even backroads driving, I’d suggest looking at the GTI. Try both and find your preference. The circuit I was on was pretty tight, so I can’t commend on power.

Also, the GTI I drove didn’t have the performance pack. I don’t think you really need it, but I haven’t driven one with it.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > smobgirl
09/22/2016 at 16:06

I am still looking - nothing particularly interesting in my area. CPO is still a consideration but you're right - used would definitely help.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > gin-san - shitpost specialist
09/22/2016 at 16:06

I own a 16 Golf. With ~$600 of tuning, you can get nearly 240hp out of the engine. GTI isn't worth the money unless you like the look.

Tripper > gin-san - shitpost specialist
09/22/2016 at 16:09

I believe the GTI performance pack gets you the magnetic dampers, which are nice to have and a great deal for the small increase in price. I’ve not driven a base Golf in a few years, but I would say the difference between it and the GTI are significant in terms of power.

In any case I would take a base Golf over the Civic or Kia because its a much nicer car to be in.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > jkm7680
09/22/2016 at 16:12

I know - reviews of the GTI (although pretty much all I've read seem to be with the Performance Pack) are all excellent for the Mk7 generation. On reviews alone, I know the GTI will make me happiest while driving. I guess I'll have to see for myself if it's really worth that much for the GTI over the Golf.

Party-vi > gin-san - shitpost specialist
09/22/2016 at 16:13

You are only missing out on 10hp, bigger brakes, and a locking front diff with the performance package. Honestly that 10hp probably isn’t there since VW doesn’t advertise a torque increase (and they underrate their engines anyway) and unless you’re going to a track I don’t think you’ll see the advantage of the brakes and locking diff. Plus the regular GTI has a simulated LSD.

Textured Soy Protein > gin-san - shitpost specialist
09/22/2016 at 16:16

The Forte is interesting because like the GTI, it’s got an extra 25-30 hp over the Golf & Civic. If you get the Premium Tech package it has ventilated seats and I love ventilated seats. But it has a twist beam rear suspension.

burntartichoke > gin-san - shitpost specialist
09/22/2016 at 16:17

What would be the main purpose of the new car? Commuting or just around town. What did you have before? I just moved to a 2016 Sportwagen and can say the driving dynamic of the Golf is good (even with the sportwagen’s extra weight in the rear), steering is communicative and I rarely have to readjust after turn in. It does have a bit more body roll than I would like but not bad for what it is, I think it is engaging but this is all subjective. The main plus the Golf has over the GTI is the 1.8L engine rather than the 2.0L engine so if you are putting on lots of miles it is a little easier on gas if you drive them the same. If it is a fun tossable toy car then the other recommendations of looking CPO might be the way to go, a 2015 GTI is priced similar to a 2016 Golf. Probably the best advice is go test drive them all! Isn’t that the best part of car shopping?

Out, but with a W - has found the answer > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind
09/22/2016 at 16:22

Was planning to make the same power comment, but that $600 gets you 300hp in the GTI.

From my Euro perspective, the Golf is the de facto choice for a commuter (it’s sort-of our Camry, and the car you can arrive with on all occasions), but the GTI feels special. I might be biased, since my mom’s got one, but I always do a double take when I see it parked somewhere. The interior ambiance is amazing as well, but then again, the base Golf’s interior is top-notch as well.

Future ND Owner > gin-san - shitpost specialist
09/22/2016 at 16:27

Why not a Fiesta ST or Focus ST?

Saracen > gin-san - shitpost specialist
09/22/2016 at 16:33

Yes. The GTI is worth that extra money.

Saracen > Party-vi
09/22/2016 at 16:38

What?

$1500 for bigger brakes and a mehanical limited slip diff is worth the money ALL DAY. You will notice both if you’re not on the track.

The PP is a steal and IMO an absolute must for any GTI.

I don’t know if the 10bhp is BS or not, it doesn’t really matter. It’s totally worth it for the extra hardware.

Fake LSD’s are crap and don’t work anywhere near as well as a real limited slip, which makes a HUGE difference in a torquey FWD car.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > Future ND Owner
09/22/2016 at 16:41

I thought about it and wanted one for a while, but I actually don’t want a manual. Even if I went with a GTI it would be one with the DSG.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > Saracen
09/22/2016 at 16:43

Is there a way to tell just from looking at it if the car has the performance pack? I see two CPO GTIs nearby but they don’t mention if they have the PP or not.

Party-vi > Saracen
09/22/2016 at 16:43

Cost-wise yes, it’s totally worth it, but $1,500 is $1,500. If that much money will prevent OP from looking at a GTI then there’s no reason for him to feel as if he’s missing out on the performance package. Again, 10hp is a 5% increase (big whoop). I’m sure the upgraded brakes will cost more to service as well, and unless you’re fucking about the LSD will not be missed either. The way you make it sound, you might as well throw away a GTI if it doesn’t have the performance package.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > Textured Soy Protein
09/22/2016 at 16:46

In terms of value, the Forte5 wins. On paper, I think it’s the best choice in terms of my new options.

Future ND Owner > gin-san - shitpost specialist
09/22/2016 at 16:59

That makes sense then. I’m sure you’ll like the GTI the best, but it is also the most expensive by quite a large margin. CPO or private sale used (with a good PPI) might get you into a GTI at Civic prices though.

Saracen > Party-vi
09/22/2016 at 17:34

The power I don’t care about, it would get chipped anyway. Servicing the bigger brakes would only be an incremental increase, it’s not like they’re anything exotic in a weird size.

And I’ll continue to dispute, after owning multiple high powered FWD cars, that LSD in such a car is a must. Heck, I want one in my TDI..

It doesn’t make the car a throwaway but it makes it much better, and will prove to improve resale value.

Vicente Esteve > gin-san - shitpost specialist
09/22/2016 at 21:21

If you’re decided on an auto, the DSG is by far the best one in that segment.

camarov6rs > gin-san - shitpost specialist
09/22/2016 at 21:45

Red badges is the easiest way to tell

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > gin-san - shitpost specialist
09/22/2016 at 22:08

PP GTI’s have red badges instead of silver.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > Party-vi
09/22/2016 at 22:44

Is the PP an option you can add to any trim in the US? For $1,500 I think it’d be fine, but for this amount plus 13% it’s a bigger price penalty here:

Kinja'd!!!

gin-san - shitpost specialist > Vicente Esteve
09/22/2016 at 22:53

That’s what I had figured - it’s the only dual clutch in the options I have here and everything I’ve read suggests that it’s a very responsive gearbox.

Long Live the Longdoor > gin-san - shitpost specialist
09/22/2016 at 23:30

I haven’t driven the GTI, which I can only imagine is splendid, but if it were my coin, I’d present you a new option: regular Golf but get the dealer to through in some parts from the VW Accessory Catalog. Namely, an Exhaust and Sport Suspension . Add a tune maybe once the warranty is gonzo (or not), some better tires once you burn through the OE set and I reckon you have a stout 90% of a GTI for way less.

Vicente Esteve > gin-san - shitpost specialist
09/23/2016 at 07:38

I am an owner of a 6 speed manual MK7 and tried it on a GTI. It’s different fun, but fun I’d like to live with for a while.

Party-vi > gin-san - shitpost specialist
09/23/2016 at 08:37

It is a trim option in the US, so we have the S, S w/PP, SE, SE w/PP, Autobahn, Autobahn w/PP. That is a large price increase for a $1,500 option.

Justino6969 > gin-san - shitpost specialist
09/23/2016 at 22:00

P.s. I’ve heard from a few places that the performance pack will be standard on all 2017+ model GTIs. Might be worth the wait.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > Justino6969
09/24/2016 at 10:40

I’ll have to see what the price works out to - the Performance GTI here is so close to Golf R money that it doesn’t make sense at all.